Daniel 8:13

Raamattu Bible

Sitten minä kuulin yhden pyhän puhuvan, ja toinen pyhä sanoi sille, joka puhui: "Kuinka pitkää aikaa tarkoittaa näky jokapäiväisestä uhrista ja kauhistavasta rikoksesta: pyhäkön ja sotajoukon alttiiksi antamisesta tallattavaksi?"

Bible Verse Review
  from Treasury of Scripure Knowledge

one saint: Daniel 4:13, Daniel 7:16, Daniel 12:5, Daniel 12:6, Deuteronomy 33:2, Zechariah 1:9-12, Zechariah 1:19, Zechariah 2:3, Zechariah 2:4, Zechariah 14:5, 1 Thessalonians 3:13, 1 Peter 1:12, Jude 1:14

that certain saint: or, the numberer of secrets, or, the wonderful numberer, Heb. Palmoni, Judges 13:18, *marg. Isaiah 9:6, Matthew 11:27, Luke 10:22, John 1:18

How: Daniel 12:6, Psalms 74:9, Psalms 79:5, Isaiah 6:11, Revelation 6:10

the vision: Daniel 8:11, Daniel 8:12

and the: Daniel 9:27, Daniel 11:31, Daniel 12:11, Matthew 24:15, Mark 13:14, Luke 21:20

of desolation: or, making desolate

to be: Daniel 7:23, Isaiah 63:18, Luke 21:24, Hebrews 10:29, Revelation 11:2

Reciprocal: Numbers 28:3 - day by day 1 Kings 18:36 - at the time Isaiah 5:5 - trodden down Isaiah 28:3 - shall

Gill's Notes on the Bible

Then I heard one saint speaking,.... An angel, either a created angel, pure and holy in his nature, as Gabriel; or the uncreated Angel Jesus Christ, the Word of God; what he was speaking of is not said; perhaps Daniel did not hear what he said, though he heard him speaking, or perceived that he spake; yet did not understand what he said, or what was the subject of his discourse; very probably it was something relative to the vision now seen:

and another saint said unto that certain saint that spake; another angel said to him that spake, whose name is unknown, only called such an one, or Palmoni, which some render "the wonderful numberer"; or, "the numberer of secrets", or "that has all secrets numbered" g; and apply it to Christ, whose name is "Pele", wonderful; the eternal Word of God, that is in the bosom of the Father, and knows all secrets, and the number of times and seasons, how long they will last; what created angels know not, he does; and therefore they apply to him for instruction and knowledge in hidden things:

how long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden underfoot? that is, how long will this vision last? or when will this prophecy be at an end, and have its full and final accomplishment? how long will the sacrifice be taken away, or made to cease? how long will that transgression, that abomination, making the temple desolate, the image of Jupiter Olympius set up by Antiochus, continue in it? how long shall it be given to him, or he be permitted to tread under foot, and use in the most contemptuous manner, the temple of the Lord, and his people?

g לפלמוני "illi qui occulta in numerato habet", Junius & Tremellius.

Barnes' Notes on the Bible

Then I heard one saint speaking - One holy one. The vision was now ended, and the prophet represents himself now as hearing earnest inquiries as to the length of time during which this desolation was to continue. This conversation, or these inquiries, he represents himself as hearing among those whom he calls “saints” - or holy ones - קדשׁ qâdôsh. This word might refer to a saint on earth, or to an angel - to any holy being. As one of these, however, was able to explain the vision, and to tell how long the desolation was to continue, it is more natural to refer it to angels. So Lengerke understands it. The representation is, that one holy one, or angel, was heard by Daniel speaking on this subject, but nothing is recorded of what he said. It is implied only that he was conversing about the desolations that were to come upon the holy city and the people of God. To him thus speaking, and who is introduced as having power to explain it, another holy one approaches, and asks how long this state of things was to continue. The answer to this question Daniel 8:14 is made, not to the one who made the inquiry, but to Daniel, evidently that it might be recorded. Daniel does not say where this vision occurred - whether in heaven or on earth. It was so near to him, however, that he could hear what was said.

And another saint - Another holy one - probably an angel. If so, we may conclude, what is in itself every way probable, that one angel has more knowledge than another, or that things are communicated to some which are not to others.

Unto that certain saint which spake - Margin, Palmoni, or, the numberer of secrets, or, the wondeful numberer. The Hebrew word, פלמוני pal^emônı̂y, occurs nowhere else in the Scriptures. The similar form, פלני p^elonı̂y, occurs in Ruth 4:1, “Ho, such a one, turn aside;” in 1 Samuel 21:2, “appointed my servants to such and such a place;” and 2 Kings 6:8, “In such and such a place.” The Italic words denote the corresponding Hebrew word. The word, according to Gesenius, means some one, a certain one; in Arabic, one who is distinct or definite, whom one points out as with the finger, and not by name. It is derived from an obsolete noun, פלון pâlôn, from the verb פלה pâlâh, to distinguish, and is united commonly with the word אלמני 'al^emonı̂y - meaning, properly, one concealed or unknown. It is language, therefore, which would be properly addressed to an unknown person with whom we would desire to speak, or whom we would designate by the finger, or in some such way, without being able to call the name. Thus applied in the passage here, it means that Daniel did not know the names of the persons thus speaking, but simply saw that one was speaking to another. He had no other way of designating or distinguishing them than by applying a term which was commonly used of a stranger when one wished to address him, or to point him out, or to call him to him. There is no foundation in the word for the meaning suggested in the margin. Theodotion does not attempt to translate the word, but retains it - φελμουνὶ phelmouni - Phelmouni. The Latin Vulgate well expresses the meaning, dixit unus sanctus alteri nescio loquenti. The full sense is undoubtedly conveyed by the two ideas,

(a) that the one referred to was unknown by name, and

(b) that he wished to designate him in some way, or to point him out.

How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice? - How long is what is designed to be represented by the vision to continue; that is, how long in fact will the offering of the daily sacrifice in the temple be suspended?

And the transgression of desolation - Margin, making desolate. That is, the act of iniquity on the part of Antiochus producing such desolation in the holy city and the temple - show long is that to continue?

To give both the sanctuary - The temple; the holy place where God dwelt by a visible symbol, and where he was worshipped.

And the host - The people of God - the Jewish people.

To be trodden under foot - To be utterly despised and prostrated - as anything which is trodden under our feet.

Clarke's Notes on the Bible

Verse 13. One saint speaking, and another saint said — One angel asked another how long the sanctuary was to be trodden down?